Comments on: The Pope, the G8, and the “Man in Charge” Fallacy http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/ just asking that aid benefit the poor Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:48:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tracy W http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5880 Tracy W Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:12:08 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5880 SS - I suspect we may have different definitions of being "in charge". I think that if you can pass laws, but you can't generally enforce them, you're not in charge. For example, I don't think the Pope is in charge of many Catholics decisions about contraceptive use, judging by birth rates in Italy. SS – I suspect we may have different definitions of being “in charge”. I think that if you can pass laws, but you can’t generally enforce them, you’re not in charge.

For example, I don’t think the Pope is in charge of many Catholics decisions about contraceptive use, judging by birth rates in Italy.

]]> By: nwaocha ogechukwu http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5879 nwaocha ogechukwu Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:38:41 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5879 An Exciting Internpretation of symbolism in Christianty!!! What do you think of when you look at the cross and the crucifix? Do they hold sacred and religious value for you? After reading Ogechukwu’s book, your perception may change; the church’s use of these symbols has, for centuries, concealed facts regarding their true origins. Ogechukwu reveals those findings in this stunning expose. His research includes historical accounts of Christianity’s conspiracy and divulges the true meaning of the cross—a satanic symbol. Ogechukwu states: “For centuries after Christ, the church and other religions that use cruciform symbols have misrepresented the physical nature of Christ's death with a satanic symbol (cross), and a pagan idol (corpus). This secret has been concealed by the church for centuries after Christ." What reason did the church have for shifting the cross’ meaning from one of evil to one of goodness? This easy to read, enlightening and academically sound book regarding the symbolism and meaning of the cross leads to a stunning conclusion. Learn more about the real nature of Christ’s death and religion’s role in the change in symbolis at www.eloquentbooks.com/TheSecretBehindTheCrossAndCruifix.html An Exciting Internpretation of symbolism in Christianty!!!

What do you think of when you look at the cross and the crucifix? Do they hold sacred and religious value for you?

After reading Ogechukwu’s book, your perception may change; the church’s use of these symbols has, for centuries, concealed facts regarding their true origins. Ogechukwu reveals those findings in this stunning expose.

His research includes historical accounts of Christianity’s conspiracy and divulges the true meaning of the cross—a satanic symbol.

Ogechukwu states:

“For centuries after Christ, the church and other religions that use cruciform symbols have misrepresented the physical nature of Christ’s death with a satanic symbol (cross), and a pagan idol (corpus). This secret has been concealed by the church for centuries after Christ.”

What reason did the church have for shifting the cross’ meaning from one of evil to one of goodness?

This easy to read, enlightening and academically sound book regarding the symbolism and meaning of the cross leads to a stunning conclusion. Learn more about the real nature of Christ’s death and religion’s role in the change in symbolis at

http://www.eloquentbooks.com/TheSecretBehindTheCrossAndCruifix.html

]]> By: SS http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5878 SS Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:12:39 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5878 @Tracy W Looks like you just smoked out the "invisible hand" which is supposed to make markets efficient regardless, hmm. I think you have a point. As for institutional rule setting it is in charge there are simply a lot of rule breakers, including us, sort of like criminals, that doesn't mean there aren't any laws. SS @Tracy W

Looks like you just smoked out the “invisible hand” which is supposed to make markets efficient regardless, hmm. I think you have a point.

As for institutional rule setting it is in charge there are simply a lot of rule breakers, including us, sort of like criminals, that doesn’t mean there aren’t any laws.

SS

]]> By: Tracy W http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5877 Tracy W Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:13:59 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5877 SS: - nope, the institutional rule setting is not in charge. The UN is ignored whenever it doesn't suit individual governments (see for example the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict, or North Korea's nukes), pirates in Somalia thumb their noses at the Law of the Sea, the World Bank and the IMF have failed to create economic prosperity despite their aims, drug smugglers and people smugglers operate despite massive efforts on the part of the world's governments to stop them, etc. And you introduce the idea of men & women being in charge, not the free market. This implies to me that you think that the free market has an existance independently of men and women. Have I misunderstood something? How do you think that works? For example, let's take the illegal drug trade. If no man and no woman was willing to trade heroin (or another such drug), how do you think there could be a market in heroin? Markets, free or otherwise, can operate in defiance of governments, but I don't see how they could operate in defiance of all men and women. SS: – nope, the institutional rule setting is not in charge. The UN is ignored whenever it doesn’t suit individual governments (see for example the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict, or North Korea’s nukes), pirates in Somalia thumb their noses at the Law of the Sea, the World Bank and the IMF have failed to create economic prosperity despite their aims, drug smugglers and people smugglers operate despite massive efforts on the part of the world’s governments to stop them, etc.

And you introduce the idea of men & women being in charge, not the free market. This implies to me that you think that the free market has an existance independently of men and women. Have I misunderstood something? How do you think that works? For example, let’s take the illegal drug trade. If no man and no woman was willing to trade heroin (or another such drug), how do you think there could be a market in heroin? Markets, free or otherwise, can operate in defiance of governments, but I don’t see how they could operate in defiance of all men and women.

]]> By: SS http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5876 SS Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:19:37 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5876 NO MAN IN CHARGE OF INSTITUTIONAL RULES? Institutional rules are meant to transcend any one individual, that is the idea behind the rule of law, no one man or group of men or women can way lay it. If you want to say that some of the rules are inconsistent you would have a better case but still not a good one as they appear remarkably so for rules established over many years in many venues. But perhaps this is what the Pope was getting at when he said,"a true world political authority" he never asked for one person in charge at least not as you quote him. This nostalgia for a person in charge appears to be entirely our hosts, perhaps reminiscent of his ancestors ambivalent feelings when throwing off the king. In any case it has nothing to do with the modern debate over democratic institutions and rules. SS NO MAN IN CHARGE OF INSTITUTIONAL RULES?

Institutional rules are meant to transcend any one individual, that is the idea behind the rule of law, no one man or group of men or women can way lay it. If you want to say that some of the rules are inconsistent you would have a better case but still not a good one as they appear remarkably so for rules established over many years in many venues. But perhaps this is what the Pope was getting at when he said,”a true world political authority” he never asked for one person in charge at least not as you quote him. This nostalgia for a person in charge appears to be entirely our hosts, perhaps reminiscent of his ancestors ambivalent feelings when throwing off the king. In any case it has nothing to do with the modern debate over democratic institutions and rules.

SS

]]> By: Bill Easterly http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5875 Bill Easterly Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:58:33 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5875 Response to some comments: sorry, there is no Man in Charge of institutional rules either. They are a complex mix of many top down law-writers and bottom-up social norms that evolve over a long period of time. Response to some comments:

sorry, there is no Man in Charge of institutional rules either.

They are a complex mix of many top down law-writers and bottom-up social norms that evolve over a long period of time.

]]> By: Del F. http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5874 Del F. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:58:34 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5874 Bill, Enjoy your commentaries. With respect to the G8, the declaration on food aid seemed to be a real rehash of a lot of old material. The bane of us old guys is the "been there, seen that" syndrome. (I remember Bob M.'s Nairobi speech of 1973. Lot of water under the bridge in the last 36 years.) Have you seen any solid critique of the G8 declaration on food aid? Thank you. Bill,

Enjoy your commentaries. With respect to the G8, the declaration on food aid seemed to be a real rehash of a lot of old material. The bane of us old guys is the “been there, seen that” syndrome. (I remember Bob M.’s Nairobi speech of 1973. Lot of water under the bridge in the last 36 years.)

Have you seen any solid critique of the G8 declaration on food aid?

Thank you.

]]> By: SS http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5873 SS Sun, 12 Jul 2009 07:28:00 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5873 RULE OF LAW IS RULE OF MEN AND WOMEN I see many of the commenters and perhaps our host have not understood institutional economics. Could this be what the Pope was getting at? Reinforcing international instutions? Are you refuting a straw man - the leader - because you can't deal with the essential importance of institutions? SS RULE OF LAW IS RULE OF MEN AND WOMEN

I see many of the commenters and perhaps our host have not understood institutional economics. Could this be what the Pope was getting at? Reinforcing international instutions? Are you refuting a straw man – the leader – because you can’t deal with the essential importance of institutions?

SS

]]> By: Jim Otteson http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5872 Jim Otteson Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:37:50 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5872 This is connected with what I have called the "Great Man Fallacy," drawing upon Adam Smith's condemnation of the "man of system" in his 1759 <i>Theory of Moral Sentiments.</i> It is not just the idea that there is some person who is (or ought to be) in charge of everything, but, further, that this brilliant person (or collection of brilliant personages) has the capacity to gather and keep before his conscious attention all the facts required to make all the millions of decisions that are daily required to make a market economy run. Once one begins to consider all the information that would be necessary to accomplish that feat--all the facts about every single individual, about each of their goals, purposes, opportunities, resources, etc., all of which change all the time--it becomes clear that no person however brilliant can do it. But that does not prevent us from asking our leaders to do so, and from assuming that, all the evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, they are competent for the task. Precisely that is the "fallacy." This is connected with what I have called the “Great Man Fallacy,” drawing upon Adam Smith’s condemnation of the “man of system” in his 1759 Theory of Moral Sentiments. It is not just the idea that there is some person who is (or ought to be) in charge of everything, but, further, that this brilliant person (or collection of brilliant personages) has the capacity to gather and keep before his conscious attention all the facts required to make all the millions of decisions that are daily required to make a market economy run. Once one begins to consider all the information that would be necessary to accomplish that feat–all the facts about every single individual, about each of their goals, purposes, opportunities, resources, etc., all of which change all the time–it becomes clear that no person however brilliant can do it.

But that does not prevent us from asking our leaders to do so, and from assuming that, all the evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, they are competent for the task. Precisely that is the “fallacy.”

]]> By: Rob http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-5871 Rob Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:50:25 +0000 http://aidwatchers.com/2009/07/the-pope-the-g8-and-the-%e2%80%9cman-in-charge%e2%80%9d-fallacy/#comment-5871 "there is no Man in Charge of the global economy, There never has been, and there never will be." Thank God. “there is no Man in Charge of the global economy, There never has been, and there never will be.”

Thank God.

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