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	<title>Comments on: Amartya Sen on Moralism, Maoism, and Capitalism</title>
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	<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/</link>
	<description>just asking that aid benefit the poor</description>
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		<title>By: kthomas</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator>kthomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4641</guid>
		<description>Mao the Capitalist?
If he were alive, he&#039;d have you shot.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mao the Capitalist?</p>
<p>If he were alive, he&#8217;d have you shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cecire</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4640</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cecire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4640</guid>
		<description>M -
Thanks for your comments on my blog.  I appreciate your input, and I have read Sen&#039;s book.  As you might have noticed, I have also worked in international development a bit myself, so I&#039;m not unfamiliar with many of the issues he raises.  I actually like the book, although my comments that I raised above relate to his piece on NYRoB and not necessarily that of Development As Freedom.
I&#039;m not sure what about my comments you find &#039;disturbing,&#039; nor do I understand why you seem to think I&#039;m obligated to subscribe to Sen&#039;s opinions if I&#039;m interested in sustainable development.  Sen is a very smart man, but his ideas  is hardly the god particle of development economics.
I understand Sen&#039;s emphasis on creating effective institutions, but his seeming reliance on state-led models for &#039;development&#039; (and not growth) is laudable but introduces conditions that will, to channel the late Mancur Olson, calcify political power among the elite and their selected interests, mitigating growth and, indeed, development.
Of course, Sen is a Nobel Laureate and I&#039;m just a country economic developer.
Thanks.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M -</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments on my blog.  I appreciate your input, and I have read Sen&#8217;s book.  As you might have noticed, I have also worked in international development a bit myself, so I&#8217;m not unfamiliar with many of the issues he raises.  I actually like the book, although my comments that I raised above relate to his piece on NYRoB and not necessarily that of Development As Freedom.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what about my comments you find &#8216;disturbing,&#8217; nor do I understand why you seem to think I&#8217;m obligated to subscribe to Sen&#8217;s opinions if I&#8217;m interested in sustainable development.  Sen is a very smart man, but his ideas  is hardly the god particle of development economics.</p>
<p>I understand Sen&#8217;s emphasis on creating effective institutions, but his seeming reliance on state-led models for &#8216;development&#8217; (and not growth) is laudable but introduces conditions that will, to channel the late Mancur Olson, calcify political power among the elite and their selected interests, mitigating growth and, indeed, development.</p>
<p>Of course, Sen is a Nobel Laureate and I&#8217;m just a country economic developer.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: otti</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4639</link>
		<dc:creator>otti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4639</guid>
		<description>Where is trust?
Debt is there!
And health care?
Nowhere!
Capitalism without moralism is maoism.
Yeah.
Sen macht Sinn (means sense).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is trust?</p>
<p>Debt is there!</p>
<p>And health care?</p>
<p>Nowhere!</p>
<p>Capitalism without moralism is maoism.</p>
<p>Yeah.</p>
<p>Sen macht Sinn (means sense).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Cecire</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4638</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Cecire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4638</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t seem like Sen&#039;s premise - that market capitalism should be regarded as but one of several pieces of a functioning modern economic system - is actually much of a philosophical innovation at all.  This idea has been spoken to both formally and informally for generations, so I walked away from the article feeling pretty unimpressed.  The only difference seems to be his timing and packaging.
At the same time, Easterly&#039;s allusion to trust is an interesting one.  It&#039;s not incorrect to say that Sen is essentially calling for an economic culture that is founded on elements of trust - as the institutions that are supposed to facilitate that trust have been largely discredited.  The problem is that Sen&#039;s solution is to further empower these institutions, essentially suggesting that larger staffs and a broader mandate would somehow reinvigorate confidence and be more adept at catching the next problem.
I&#039;m not convinced.  If anything, there are compelling cases to be made that the influence of distorting government policies - the CRA, the &#039;ownership society&#039; phenomena, and the Fed&#039;s inner sanctum come to mind - directly contributed (partially, at least) to the bubbling of the bubble while mitigating the effects of market self-correction.  Cavalier interest rates and a persisting  weak dollar policy made short-term market correction nearly impossible; in that sense, the current crisis IS the markets self-correcting.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t seem like Sen&#8217;s premise &#8211; that market capitalism should be regarded as but one of several pieces of a functioning modern economic system &#8211; is actually much of a philosophical innovation at all.  This idea has been spoken to both formally and informally for generations, so I walked away from the article feeling pretty unimpressed.  The only difference seems to be his timing and packaging.</p>
<p>At the same time, Easterly&#8217;s allusion to trust is an interesting one.  It&#8217;s not incorrect to say that Sen is essentially calling for an economic culture that is founded on elements of trust &#8211; as the institutions that are supposed to facilitate that trust have been largely discredited.  The problem is that Sen&#8217;s solution is to further empower these institutions, essentially suggesting that larger staffs and a broader mandate would somehow reinvigorate confidence and be more adept at catching the next problem.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not convinced.  If anything, there are compelling cases to be made that the influence of distorting government policies &#8211; the CRA, the &#8216;ownership society&#8217; phenomena, and the Fed&#8217;s inner sanctum come to mind &#8211; directly contributed (partially, at least) to the bubbling of the bubble while mitigating the effects of market self-correction.  Cavalier interest rates and a persisting  weak dollar policy made short-term market correction nearly impossible; in that sense, the current crisis IS the markets self-correcting.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4637</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4637</guid>
		<description>Prof. Easterly, I appreciate that you took the time to respond to our concerns, and I also commend you for the consistent passion that you have showcased in this blog. Still, I must admit that I too am concerned about your reading of Development as Freedom. Do you have any other issues with the book? Is there truly any room for disagreement, especially regarding the importance of the five freedoms that Sen identifies (the ability to participate in the market, the ability to choose who governs and by what principles, social opportunities such as health care and education, transparency guarantees such as police and independent judicial systems to ensure safe transactions, and protective security such as pensions and unemployment insurance)?
I also mention the five freedoms again because they are essential to understanding Sen&#039;s articles. Sen argues in essence that greater recognition of their importance -- and especially of the social opportunities of universal health care -- could have mitigated the harmful effects of the current crisis.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof. Easterly, I appreciate that you took the time to respond to our concerns, and I also commend you for the consistent passion that you have showcased in this blog. Still, I must admit that I too am concerned about your reading of Development as Freedom. Do you have any other issues with the book? Is there truly any room for disagreement, especially regarding the importance of the five freedoms that Sen identifies (the ability to participate in the market, the ability to choose who governs and by what principles, social opportunities such as health care and education, transparency guarantees such as police and independent judicial systems to ensure safe transactions, and protective security such as pensions and unemployment insurance)?</p>
<p>I also mention the five freedoms again because they are essential to understanding Sen&#8217;s articles. Sen argues in essence that greater recognition of their importance &#8212; and especially of the social opportunities of universal health care &#8212; could have mitigated the harmful effects of the current crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4636</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4636</guid>
		<description>Well since you raise it, I&#039;ll do what you didn&#039;t do and give your readers the full quote from Development as Freedom:
&quot;Was Mao intending to build the social foundations of a market economy and capitalist expansion (as he certainly did succeed in doing)? That hypothesis would be hard to entertain. And yet the Maoist policies of land reform, expansion of literacy, enlargement of public health care and so on had a very favorable effect on economic growth in post-reform China. The extent to which post-reform China draws on the results achieved in pre-reform China needs greater recognition. The positive unintended consequences are important here.&quot;
Elsewhere in Development as Freedom, Sen writes:
&quot;The Chinese famines of 1958-1961 killed, it is now estimated, close to thirty million people - ten times more than even the gigantic famine in British India. The so-called Great Leap Forward initiated in the late 1950s had been a massive failure, but the Chinese government refused to admit that and continued to pursue dogmatically much the same disastrous policies for three more years&quot;
You&#039;d have to be pretty desperate to call that a ringing endorsement of Maoism. What Sen is saying is that a system that was generally malign can have positive UNINTENDED consequences. I don&#039;t think he&#039;s the first to point this kind of thing out, either. Why that means he deserves furious, red-baiting denunciation of the kind you&#039;re doling out is beyond me.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well since you raise it, I&#8217;ll do what you didn&#8217;t do and give your readers the full quote from Development as Freedom:</p>
<p>&#8220;Was Mao intending to build the social foundations of a market economy and capitalist expansion (as he certainly did succeed in doing)? That hypothesis would be hard to entertain. And yet the Maoist policies of land reform, expansion of literacy, enlargement of public health care and so on had a very favorable effect on economic growth in post-reform China. The extent to which post-reform China draws on the results achieved in pre-reform China needs greater recognition. The positive unintended consequences are important here.&#8221;</p>
<p>Elsewhere in Development as Freedom, Sen writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Chinese famines of 1958-1961 killed, it is now estimated, close to thirty million people &#8211; ten times more than even the gigantic famine in British India. The so-called Great Leap Forward initiated in the late 1950s had been a massive failure, but the Chinese government refused to admit that and continued to pursue dogmatically much the same disastrous policies for three more years&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;d have to be pretty desperate to call that a ringing endorsement of Maoism. What Sen is saying is that a system that was generally malign can have positive UNINTENDED consequences. I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s the first to point this kind of thing out, either. Why that means he deserves furious, red-baiting denunciation of the kind you&#8217;re doling out is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: William Easterly</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4635</link>
		<dc:creator>William Easterly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4635</guid>
		<description>M and Jim, rereading Sen&#039;s Development as Freedom makes me more concerned about his take on Maoism, not less. On p. 260, Sen says &quot;Maoist policies of land reform, expansion of literacy, enlargement of public health care and so on had a very favorable effect on economic growth in post-reform China.&quot; Complusory indocrination and seizure of land don&#039;t sound like growth-encouraging policies to me. A more plausible story for China&#039;s rapid growth post-Mao is that it is recovery from the economic destruction of Mao, and a change from a totalitarian society to one with partial economic and political freedom.&quot; Regards, Bill Easterly
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M and Jim, rereading Sen&#8217;s Development as Freedom makes me more concerned about his take on Maoism, not less. On p. 260, Sen says &#8220;Maoist policies of land reform, expansion of literacy, enlargement of public health care and so on had a very favorable effect on economic growth in post-reform China.&#8221; Complusory indocrination and seizure of land don&#8217;t sound like growth-encouraging policies to me. A more plausible story for China&#8217;s rapid growth post-Mao is that it is recovery from the economic destruction of Mao, and a change from a totalitarian society to one with partial economic and political freedom.&#8221; Regards, Bill Easterly</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4634</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4634</guid>
		<description>RESEARCH WATCH
-sporadically holding development research accountable to reality since the other day
Wouldn&#039;t your proposal that trust COULD arise out of PURE self-interest presuppose that society is a closed system inhabited by immortals? By recent, I don&#039;t suppose you mean the 70&#039;s – Richard Titmuss&#039; gift relationship or Gary Becker&#039;s exchange theory???
I haven&#039;t read all zillion articles on trust, norms, formal- and informal institutions, social capital *sigh*, etc. but my conclusion so far is more along the lines of &#039;trust&#039; as distributed and maintained in multiple forms and levels, highly entangled in power structures, varying according to the matter of interaction, sensitive to tiny variations in history ...... Actually, any talk of (multiple) equilibria seems more confusing than helpful.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RESEARCH WATCH</p>
<p>-sporadically holding development research accountable to reality since the other day</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t your proposal that trust COULD arise out of PURE self-interest presuppose that society is a closed system inhabited by immortals? By recent, I don&#8217;t suppose you mean the 70&#8217;s – Richard Titmuss&#8217; gift relationship or Gary Becker&#8217;s exchange theory???</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read all zillion articles on trust, norms, formal- and informal institutions, social capital *sigh*, etc. but my conclusion so far is more along the lines of &#8216;trust&#8217; as distributed and maintained in multiple forms and levels, highly entangled in power structures, varying according to the matter of interaction, sensitive to tiny variations in history &#8230;&#8230; Actually, any talk of (multiple) equilibria seems more confusing than helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4633</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4633</guid>
		<description>The idea that Sen is showing &#039;nostalgia for Maoism&#039; is as inaccurate as it is insulting. He endorses universal health care, not Maoism. Maybe you don&#039;t understand the difference, but some of us do.
You also misrepresent his article about being all about &#039;trust&#039;, which it plainly is not. He is very clear that the current crisis was in large part brought about by a failure to regulate markets, a failure directly linked to the ideological promotion of the self-regulating market as the embodiment of &#039;freedom&#039; and &#039;liberty&#039;. I&#039;m not surprised you want to deflect attention away from that part of his argument, though.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that Sen is showing &#8216;nostalgia for Maoism&#8217; is as inaccurate as it is insulting. He endorses universal health care, not Maoism. Maybe you don&#8217;t understand the difference, but some of us do.</p>
<p>You also misrepresent his article about being all about &#8216;trust&#8217;, which it plainly is not. He is very clear that the current crisis was in large part brought about by a failure to regulate markets, a failure directly linked to the ideological promotion of the self-regulating market as the embodiment of &#8216;freedom&#8217; and &#8216;liberty&#8217;. I&#8217;m not surprised you want to deflect attention away from that part of his argument, though.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/comment-page-1/#comment-4632</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aidwatchers.com/2009/03/amartya-sen-on-moralism-maoism-and-capitalism/#comment-4632</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, I would like to contribute to three comments concerning your reaction to Amartya Sen&#039;s articles.
First, pursuant to your comment about “sermonizing to those (probably nonexistent) economists who didn’t know you need trust as well as the profit motive”, Sen’s articles are NOT directed at economists with excellent knowledge of how capitalism works best and how it must be supplemented by public goods etc. (you are definitely included in this group). Sen’s articles are ostensibly targeted towards those who have taken on a more myopic, market fundamentalist belief. More specifically, Sen is challenging those who don’t recognize the extent to which all of the five major freedoms identified in Development As Freedom are integral for a functioning welfare state – one which is not only based on the capitalism derived from the butcher-baker-brewer principles of Adam Smith.
Second, although it is difficult to discern from these two articles, I believe your mention of trust does not fully encompass what Sen is trying to allude to. In my view, Sen is trying to underscore the extent to which “transparency guarantees” and one’s ability to participate in the market (see Development As Freedom) were undermined by those who allowed a myopic belief in butcher-baker-brewer-capitalism to flourish. Sen explains this well in the NYRB article by mentioning the failures to regulate the practice of subprime lending and the proliferation of derivatives which fueled the latter.
Third, Sen cogently explains your concerns about the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward in Development As Freedom. I won’t try to summarize his elegant argument in this forum.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, I would like to contribute to three comments concerning your reaction to Amartya Sen&#8217;s articles.</p>
<p>First, pursuant to your comment about “sermonizing to those (probably nonexistent) economists who didn’t know you need trust as well as the profit motive”, Sen’s articles are NOT directed at economists with excellent knowledge of how capitalism works best and how it must be supplemented by public goods etc. (you are definitely included in this group). Sen’s articles are ostensibly targeted towards those who have taken on a more myopic, market fundamentalist belief. More specifically, Sen is challenging those who don’t recognize the extent to which all of the five major freedoms identified in Development As Freedom are integral for a functioning welfare state – one which is not only based on the capitalism derived from the butcher-baker-brewer principles of Adam Smith.</p>
<p>Second, although it is difficult to discern from these two articles, I believe your mention of trust does not fully encompass what Sen is trying to allude to. In my view, Sen is trying to underscore the extent to which “transparency guarantees” and one’s ability to participate in the market (see Development As Freedom) were undermined by those who allowed a myopic belief in butcher-baker-brewer-capitalism to flourish. Sen explains this well in the NYRB article by mentioning the failures to regulate the practice of subprime lending and the proliferation of derivatives which fueled the latter.</p>
<p>Third, Sen cogently explains your concerns about the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward in Development As Freedom. I won’t try to summarize his elegant argument in this forum.</p>
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